23

Helle and the Hellish Husband

16 December

This week we're talking about Helle Crafts, who was murdered by her husband Richard Crafts. Joe explains how nail polish can be used as forensic evidence, and Sandra shits on people's hobbies.

Joe got his information from:

• Criminally Intrigued blogpost, by Anthony Banks
• An article on Morbidology, by Emily Thompson. This is also where the photo of Helle Crafts and the photo of Richard being apprehended can be found.
• Forensic Heroes: Dr. Henry Lee, on forensic training unlimited by Samantha Hanlon-Beaulieu
• Wikipedia

Sandra got her information from:

• Forensic Files S01E01, on YouTube
• Wikipedia
• Forensic Files Now, blogpost
• Murderpedia

Audio transcript

Midweek Murders contains graphic and explicit content, listener discretion is advised.

I mean it's definitely worth it, because Harry Potter world is amazing. It's so immersive. Every so often in the day, they pick someone in the audience to do the scene where Harry finds his wand, and their hair gets blown up, and the lights flicker and all of that. So me and my sister went to the one shop twice in a day, and were both standing around like: "Yes, I would like to be chosen! Yes, I'm here, please pick me! Pick me!".

Didn't you get pulled on stage for something?

Yes I did.

What was it?

So again, throughout the course of the day they'll do like live performances. So in one section it was some people doing a Durmstrang dance, and then there was like a puppet show type thing that told the tale of three brothers...

Oh, cool.

And then a Celestina Warbeck impersonator sang some songs...

This is the one, isn't it?

Yeah. And for one of her songs she needed a volunteer from the audience. And she was on before the three brothers puppet show, so me and my sister had picked front row seats for the puppet show, and then she came on and she was like: "You! Come and dance with me." [Laughter]

That's such a bad decision. Not that I doubt your performance aptitude, I just mean that you must have been the one person in that crowd that 100% did not want to do that. [Laughter]

Considering the crowd would have been mainly Americans, who love getting up on stage and making a fool of themselves, and she was like: "I'm gonna pick the one neurotically self-conscious Brit that is sitting in this audience, and make him feel well and truly humiliated". So obviously, I let all of my inhibition go, gave a wonderful performance, and all the Americans loved it.

What did you actually do, though?

I've repressed it. All I remember is at one time I was in a line of four, I think, backup dancers and I had a feather boa around my neck doing the can-can. [Laughter]

I would pay money to see this.

I mean, obviously my little sister filmed it, but I have never asked for a copy of it.

The mental image of you being...

I mean the mental image of me being draped in a feather boa, not that unusual. The mental image of me dancing, yes, not very common.

The mental image of you being the least willing participant in that crowd, it's just sending me. I don't know, it's so funny.

She must have looked into my eyes and thought: "That's a guy that doesn't want to participate".

And she just realized all of your worst nightmares.

Actually, when I got up on stage and we obviously made introductions, she asked me my name and then I had to do a dance with her. And she, just before we started, whispered in my ears: "Let me lead". [Laughter]

[Music]

It's wednesday, which means that it's time to talk about crime. You're listening to Midweek Murders, and I'm your host Sandra! Sandra.

Sandra!

Sandra!

She's your host Sandra, and I'm your host Joe!

That's Joe, yeah.

This week...

That's what I said.

Yeah, this week....

[Sighs]

Are you quite finished?

No, no. Please carry on, you're doing great. What's happening this week?

This week we're going to talk about the murder of Helle Crafts. I got my information from wikipedia, Forensic Files season 1 episode 1! Crazy! So long ago. And forensic files now, a blog, and murderpedia.org.

I got mine from criminally intrigued, morbidology, and forensic training unlimited. And wiki wiki wah, obviously.

So Helle Nielsen was a 39 year old danish flight attendant living in connecticut with her husband, Richard Crafts. She grew up in Denmark, but attended college in England, and worked as an au pair in France for a while. So she spoke French, English, Danish obviously, and understood other languages, such as German, Swedish, Norwegian. Although, we're all close to each other, but you know. So she was quite bright. She was described as a very warm person, and was well liked by all who came across her. Which, I feel like, I do believe that. But also, it is how everyone is described after they die.

I wouldn't be described that way.

No, you wouldn't. [Laughter]

No, you're great. You're great at socially fronting.

The couple had three children, and Helle met her husband in Miami in 1969 when she was training to be a flight attendant for Pan Am, and Richard was training to be a pilot. Helle had been one of eight people chosen by Pan Am to begin training, out of 200 applicants. And I don't know how well-versed you are in like airline history, I'm not. But I'm just gonna say that it was a very highly sought after job, because it was very prestigious. After Helle had been taking care of their children for a couple of years, she returned to her work. And the couple's combined income put them in the top five percent of wage earners in America, in the 1980s. Which is crazy. Isn't that crazy?

Well, he was a pilot, wasn't he? Pilots have always been well paid.

Yeah. Especially because I think they're still quite well paid, and nowadays they don't actually have to do a lot.

No, other than take off and land. That's pretty much it.

Yeah. That's quite a cushy job, it's quite nice. Maybe I should be a pilot.

It's a lot of training.

Yeah. Like years?

Yeah, and I don't think you've got the eyesight for it, unfortunately.

Probably not. Did you know that a lot of people... You probably know this. A lot of people, on their spare time, do flights but as a computer game. So they do exactly what they do in flights, and then they just sit out the hours when they fly, and then they land. And that's what people do for a hobby. I'm like: "You're not in an actual airplane". I don't understand. But probably nice to know, if you're ever in a statistically implausible situation.

"Do we have any pilots on board?!"

"Oh, I've done some simulatory time."

"Perfect!" [Laughter]

You know all about this. I just find it incredibly weird. But also, to each their own. I mean, everybody needs a hobby. I'm trying to be so nice, I don't... "Nize". I put a snus in my mouth, I was like: "I'm trying to be so nize".

"Trying to be nize".

I just feel like, I'm not actually like this. I'm presenting myself in a false narrative. Oh well. Richard... [Laughter] Richard controlled...

"This isn't me! Fuck all you people and your shitty flight simulator hobbies!"

"Actually, I don't understand it, okay?!"

"You fucking nerds! Get a real job." [Laughter]

Richard controlled all of their money, and spent a lot of it on his hobby, which was collecting guns. And other useless shit.

Wow. Well, I know what the description of this episode's gonna be: "Sandra shits on people's hobbies". [Laughter]

Yeah.

You like collecting stuff? Well that's a stupid thing to do.

But also, he forced Helle to pay for all of their stuff that they needed, such as gas and like food and stuff, that is important. And then he took control of all other money that was coming in, and spent it on shit. And also, he went away a lot and like slept with other women. Paid them money, bought them shit, bought himself shit. He didn't put one dime into that family. So I was like: "Fuck this Richard". Or maybe we should call him the dick. Because... [Laughter] Because Richard is... [Laughter] Oh god. This is also funny: and, in Connecticut, Richard was working part-time as a volunteer police officer. He often spent his free time at the police station, and he would respond to 911 calls without authorization. He also bought a car that was the same make as the police cars. There was a note about what kind of make it was, but I was like: "I don't know".

"Hurr durr, cars, durr".

Cars, all the same to me. And spent his own money, and then I put in parentheses: "and Helles", on fitting the car with radios and sirens. So that it would look like a police car, but it wasn't actually a police car. This weirdo was described by people who worked with him as: "nice but introverted". And then I put in all caps: "Quiet people aren't automatically nice!". That's a life lesson...

That I do not subscribe to.

Do you not? Of course you do.

No. Quiet people are always nice.

No. You're just trying to wind me up. I won't be wound up. Is that a real word, wound?

Yeah.

Yeah! I was like: "It is!"

"I did it! I Englished!"

I did the English. Helle's friends had noticed bruising on her face several times, and she had told her friends that: "If something happens to me, don't think that it was an accident". She had been aware of Richard's affairs with other women for a while, but decided to hire a private investigator in 1986, to obtain proof of this. This wasn't actually said in any of the articles, but I'm guessing it was because of the divorce.

That would makes sense, yeah.

Yeah. I think so, because people said like: "Oh, she recently discovered", but then other sources said she knew. Because he was away for most of the year, just out and about doing his other stuff, and she knew that this was a thing.

I mean, it's probably a bad idea to use as an excuse that you're out flying, with someone who also works in the aviation industry. Because, you know, they're gonna know all the rules and regulations about how often you're allowed to fly.

Yeah. I think so, because he was definitely not out flying. He did go to gun conventions and stuff like that, but I think he also went away on trips and shit. And she kind of knew that. So the private investigator she hired was a guy named Keith Mayo, a former Connecticut coleslaw... No, I'm just kidding. [Laughter] A former Connecticut police officer, who managed to catch Richard in the act of kissing another woman, on camera. Helle also met with a divorce attorney, and told her friends and family about this. So they all knew, like her colleagues on the airplane, and her friends, and her mother, knew that she was filing for a divorce. She also told her divorce attorney, who was interviewed in the forensic files episode, about like: "If I disappear, Richard had something to do with it". She was also scared of him, because he was a pilot for mission for the CIA, and he had told her that he could track her everywhere. So she was afraid of him at this point. Probably way before that, as well. On the 18th of november 1986, Helle had been working on a flight from Germany, and her friend dropped her off at the Craft's home. A terrible snowstorm hit Connecticut during that night, and in the morning Richard took his children to his sister's house. But Helle was not with them. When people wanted to get in contact with her, Richard gave a multitude of stories about where Helle was. Such as: "she was visiting her mother in Denmark", or: "she was on the Canary Islands with a friend". To some inquests he simply answered that he didn't know where she was. When Helle failed to show up for work on the 1st of December, and hadn't called in sick, her colleagues reported her missing. Keith Mayo, the P.I., had tried to get the local police to look into Helle's disappearance, but they refused to. As a side note, this is where he worked as a part-time wannabe police officer, so.

I thought he worked part-time as a waitress in a cocktail bar.

So he really tried to be like: "no, she's disappeared", and they did nothing. And then he got her friends, or maybe her friends did it on their own volition... But they called in, like several times, to the police. And they were like: "Meh", did nothing. So after a while, the county prosecutor referred the case to the state police. Probably because the local police, as I said, did nothing. Mayo also interviewed the Crafts' au pair, Dawn Marie Thomas, who told him that she had been woken up at six in the morning after Helle was last seen. Richard had informed her that Helle had left to go to his sister, and that he was taking the children there immediately. The au pair found this strange, as driving in a snowstorm would be stupid. But Richard put everyone in the car, and drove them to his sister's house. But Helle wasn't there, even though Richard had said that Helle left earlier, as I said. When Richard came to pick them up at 7 pm, she still hadn't seen Helle. Dawn had asked Richard where Helle was, and at first he had just answered: "I don't know". She also told Mayo that there had been a dark spot on the carpet in the couple's bedroom. But shortly after she saw this dark spot, pieces of the carpet were missing. And when she asked Richard about this, he said that he had spilled kerosene on it. I had to google what kerosene was. It's an oil?

It's like a crude form of petrol. Or "gas".

Okay.

But I'd like to interject at this point, although he may have been working with the CIA, and police, and air force, and private pilot and blah blah blah. He obviously wasn't a particularly intelligent man. You've got a suspicious stain on your carpet, so the first thing that you come up with is to blame it on a liquid that is: 1) clear, and 2) does not leave stains.

Oh! I didn't know.

Kerosene will not leave a stain. It will stink, and you'll be able to smell it, because it's like going to a petrol station and pouring petrol on the floor. But it will not stain.

Maybe he thought that she didn't see the stain.

I mean, it's even more questionable given that in that house they had kerosene fueled heaters.

Oh.

So everyone should be familiar, in that household, with kerosene.

Yeah.

And he was like: "Oh, it's not blood, it's kerosene".

That is fucking stupid. I think that this man had a severe case of narcissism.

Of course he did! [Laughter] It's the go-to diagnosis!

But it is, because it's quite common, isn't it?

I mean, given how many narcissists we've come across doing this podcast, I would say: "yes".

Yeah. So Keith Mayo suspected there might be blood on the missing pieces of carpet, and he took things into his own hands...

Oh. That's going to introduce some contradictory evidence, I hope he wore gloves.

[Silence]

That was a forensics joke, you're welcome. [Laughter]

I didn't get it at first, but then I was like: "Yeah, that's funny". [Laughter]

Thanks for the support.

He took things into his own hands, and recruited a couple of friends, or colleagues, or something of that sort... I don't know actually. To help him search the Canterbury dump, where he figured out that the Craft's trash was ending up, for the missing pieces of carpet. And this is quite funny. Because I read this whole thing about what he did to figure that out, like he rode with a trash truck driver, and I was like: "Yeah, A for effort".

I mean, he could have just emailed the council.

This is in the 80s, so.

Okay. Could have gone to the library then. [Laughter]

He could have faxed them.

He probably could have done, actually. Like: "what's the landfill for this route?", and they would have been like: "blah blah blah".

He could have probably called them.

Oh, no one does that.

Especially not you. Emails for the win. So they eventually found some pieces of carpet that looked very similar, or almost the exact same, to the carpet in the Crafts bedroom, and sent these away for testing.

Can I just say, I take umbrage to the phrase: "almost the exact same".

Yeah. No, I know. I think that was actually a quote from one of my sources. I'm gonna guess they said that it kind of looks like it.

Close enough to warrant sending off.

Yeah. They had probably searched for hours, and they were like: "oh! A piece of carpet, must be the one".

"That'll do".

He tried.

More than the popo did.

Yeah. I'm not trying to piss on his parade, but I'm like: "might not have been the same carpet". Because of Mayo's investigating though, they managed to get Helle's disappearance noticed by the press. So almost a month after Helle had been reported missing, Richard was away with the children, and the police searched the Crafts home. They found a blood smear on the side of the bed, and this might have been on a comforter? Or not, I'm not sure.

I only found that it was on the side of the bed.

Okay. And a large freezer was missing from the garage. After dinging through Richard's credit card records, they noticed that Richard had rented a commercial wood chipper in the days around when Helle had disappeared. I couldn't find an exact date on that, but it was during the disappearance. There was also a receipt for a chainsaw, and this will become pertinent soon. As the press started covering the case, a snow plow driver named Joe Hine contacted the police, as he had seen a man driving a truck with a wood chipper strapped to it, only hours after Helle was last seen. He told police that he had seen the truck park close to the shoreline, and led them to that area. This is a bit confusing, and you can correct me on this, but as I read it...

Gladly.

As I read it, at this location the police found the crown of a tooth, a letter addressed to Helle, a fingernail covered in red nail polish. And I think that might have been a bit of a finger as well, with a fingernail on it. Bone chips, 2,660 bleached blonde human hairs, and O type blood - the same type as Helle's. In the water they retrieved parts of a chainsaw, which was where some of the hairs came from, as I understand it. And the chainsaw parts that they retrieved also had a scratched off serial number.

So what was the bit that you're confused about?

Just of the evidence they found, because I found a bit of a differentiating report on that.

Yeah. So you pretty much covered it. They found small pieces of metal, which they think could have come from her wedding ring, and a total of 85 grams of human tissue. Including the crown of a tooth, the fingernail, bone chips, and the blood. The crown in the tooth was matched to Helle according to dental records...

The human hairs, did you read anything about that?

Only that they matched it... Oh no, they couldn't match it, obviously. Because there was no body.

Yeah, but they matched it microscopically to hair that they found in her hair brush. But I'm like: "how closely can you match hairs microscopically?".

It's surprising how much detail you can get from hairs and fibers microscopically. So if they had a reference of her hair from a hairbrush, they would have been able to almost conclusively be able to match it to that of what came off. It helps that she dyed her hair. Because obviously, when your roots start coming through, it will be a different point for different people depending on the rate of their hair growth and when they had their hair bleached, or dyed, or whatever. So if they can determine at what stage of the hair it was bleached, and compare that between reference and sample, then you can pretty much conclusively match. Also, the condition of the hair.

Oh, cool.

You can get quite a lot of detail from a microscope examination of hair.

Okay.

And a lot of fiber analysis is just done with a microscope, visually. So they'll look at what type of fiber it is, and whether it's a match to any known source. So I don't find it hard to believe they matched it.

Okay. Little known fact for you listeners... I don't know if this is little known, but almost all adults in Scandinavia, all blonde adults, are dyed blonde. We're not actually blonde, we're like a mousy brown blonde, the blondes of us. Except in the summer, or if we move to a more sunny country.

Welcome to the UK, bitches!

But this is very common for almost all blonde adults in Scandinavia. But I was going to say that, speaking of fiber analysis, I think they also found a lot of blue fiber. Which, they said, was probably from Helle's favorite night shirt, or nightgown. I'm not sure.

Yeah. The source of that, everything I read conflicted. It was either underwear, nightwear, clothing... So I couldn't find anything conclusive, but there was definitely scraps of fiber that they found.

Yeah, yeah. It could have been a bedsheet. Did you see that?

Yeah. He had receipts for a sheet, a comforter - I think we call that a duvet in the UK, as well as the chainsaw, and the rental of the wood chipper. And in terms of the nail polish, it becomes significant. Because they also seized Helle's nail polish in the house. So then they would have been able to, again, do a cross reference of the source material compared to the evidence that they found. Without going into too much scientific detail, because they're very complicated techniques, they could have used a technique called FTIR - which is fourier transform infrared spectroscopy. Try saying that when you've had four bottles of wine. [Laughter] Which, basically, looks at how much light is absorbed in your sample material at multiple different wavelengths. And obviously, that will be very specific to the structure, and the topography, and the color of, in this case - nail polish. But you can use it for paint. It's very commonly used in paint analysis for things like road traffic accidents. So if you find a paint chip recovered on the scene, you can match it to the make and model of car that it came from.

Really?!

Yeah. I'm not sure when FTIR came in, and whether this case was too early for it, or whether they had to do the... So the FT, the fourier transform, is a very, very long calculation. That nowadays is done by a computer, but they used to have to do it manually, and good lord I feel sorry for them people. Because I had to do it at university, and jesus christ! It's not fun. So they could have done it through microscopy and looked at the topography, so basically the surface pattern, that the nail polish would have given. Which would then they'd be able to match, because certain nail polishes use different amounts of primers and things, to basically make it from a liquid in the bottle, to dry into a solid on your nail.

Oh, cool! I didn't know that. Well, I should have known, but I didn't realize it was that specific.

I mean, FTIR now will be able to give you a 100% match on a known sample versus a seized sample. So if they were to look at it now, and found that fingernail and the source nail polish, they would be able to say definitively: "yes, this is exactly the same nail polish from the bottle that is on the finger".

Yeah. I did find some things about the chainsaw. As I said, the serial number was scratched off, and they said that they could conclusively link it to... What was it? Maybe an insurance thing? That Richard "the dick" Crafts had sent in for that particular chainsaw.

So firstly, my question to you Dick Crafts - why would you bother insuring a chainsaw that you're just gonna chop up your wife with and then dump it in a lake?

Yeah, that's weird.

Again, we'll hark back to the point of him maybe not having so many street smarts. Second of all, they actually got one of the leading forensic scientists in the country to investigate this case, and I think he managed to partially recover the serial number which they linked back to the insurance document.

Wait. Henry Lee...

Yes. Dr. Henry Lee.

I think that he did a lot of work during this case. Because some people would have just thrown it out, because they couldn't find the body.

Yes. So this was the first case that was ever convicted for murder without a body being present. So I think a lot of...

In Connecticut, I think.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think a lot of either forensic examiners, or prosecutors if it got to trial, wouldn't have put in the amount of effort that Dr. Lee did in trying to make a conviction. Because there was so little evidence to go with... And that was actually a basis of Dick's appeal. So he appealed to the supreme court, in that he was convicted on circumstantial evidence. Which, he was. Because there's no body to match it to, it's circumstantial evidence. Because they couldn't link it to Helle.

Yeah. Although, I would say, and this is factually incorrect, but I would say that the letter that they found addressed to Helle, and his credit card records, buying a wood chipper, and then her hair being in the wood chipper. I would say that that's more than circumstantial. I get that it's not, factually.

And that's exactly why he was prosecuted and sentenced. Because the amount of circumstantial evidence, and the category of it. So the amount of human tissue that they found, the fact that he had corroborating evidence of hiring a wood chipper and buying a chainsaw. And a freezer.

And that exact chainsaw, as well.

Yeah. It was enough evidence to be able to prosecute him on. But still, in a legal sense, was circumstantial.

Yeah, I get it. But I just found it a bit crazy.

Yeah. It's a good thing that they were willing to accept it, and prosecute him on it. Apart from one juror, the little shit bag.

Yeah. We'll get to it now, the one juror. So Richard was sentenced to 50 years in prison on his second trial in 1989, as the first ended with a hung jury. And that's the thing, I think one of the jurors walked out and refused to go back in, or something like that?

Yeah. So I think on the 12th day of deliberation, or something crazy like that, the one juror couldn't convince anybody else on the jury and wouldn't change his mind.

Yeah.

So it had to be labeled as a mistrial, and be retried with a new jury.

Which is a bit crazy. Because I think I read in one of my sources, that this juror was a hundred percent convinced that he was innocent, because Helle was a polyglot and could have just disappeared. He was like: "I don't think Helle Crafts is dead". We're assuming this is a he.

No, it is a he.

It is a he, yeah. He was like: "I prayed to God, I'm convinced that he's innocent". I'm like, that is not proof, that is an opinion. It is not evidence. That's crazy to me.

The entire jury for that first trial was so methodically searched for. Because of the media attention that the case got, anybody who was familiar with the case wasn't allowed to sit on the jury. So they went through rounds and rounds, and hours and hours of interviewing jurors, to be able to find people to sit on the jury. And then this guy was one of the people that was lucky enough to get chosen, and he's a god bothering idiot. Who was like: "no, I prayed to the lord. And the lord told me, that because she speaks multiple languages, she could have just flown off anywhere. As is befitting of her career".

Yeah, it's crazy.

No, there's bits of her that was found by a lake, you fucking moron!

Yeah. And that to me, even though it's not conclusive, I would say that it's beyond reasonable doubt.

I would have convicted him.

Yeah. And also, his sister did...

Oh, she tried against him, didn't she?

Yeah. I think, did support him getting a life sentence. Because she was like: "nah, I think he did it". And also, I think she said that his son was afraid of him.

I read that too, yeah.

If his own sister is like: "no, this guy is guilty", and then that one random juror is like: "no, no. I just don't believe it", I'm like: "Fuck you. Fuuuck you."

If I ever get picked for jury duty, then I know the person's guilty. [Laughter]

I think that you and I are never going to be able to sit in a jury. Because we're disqualified for having this podcast, I think.

Oh, what?!

Although, you're anonymous. So I don't know.

I want to get paid for doing nothing! Did I tell you about the time that my old flatmate had to do jury duty?

No.

Yeah, he got called up for jury duty. And after three days, I think, the case got thrown out. And the case was: police officer A accuses police officer B of stealing his flashlight. [Laughter] This was a case that went to trial, in front of a jury. And you know why it got thrown out?

No.

Police officer A could not prove that the flashlight found in police officer B's possession, was police officer A's. Because they're standard issue flashlights. [Laughter]

I'm sorry, but that sounds like...

What the fuck.

...a dream society kind of case. When you first said something about this story, I was like: "oh my god, it's going to be so bad. Oh my god, he did something. The other police officer did something really bad, and then they're trying to cover it up". And it's a fucking flashlight!

Standard issue. They're all identical, he had no way to prove that it was his torch. Just ask for another one, fucking hell! What a waste of taxpayer money. [Laughter]

If that was the thing that police officers went to trial for, that would be a dream society. A utopia. That's funny. Kind of gives me hope about the British police force, even though I know that hope is misplaced, it felt like: "oh my god, that's so nice".

If that's the kind of story that reinforces your faith in the UK judicial system, where the fuck was your faith before that story?

In the gutter. Yeah.

And now it's risen so high that it's just perching on the curb, just above the gutter, waiting for the next rainfall to push it back in. [Laughter]

With one finger clutching on the edge.

Clinging on for dear life.

So what I also wrote down, was that Richard Crafts has been released.

Yes. Yep.

Which is crazy. That gun collecting, wannabe police officer but not a police officer, wife murdering son of a bitch is out. How in the fuck is that possible.

Because he was sentenced to 50 years, and he was a good boy in prison.

Yeah. What are you gonna do now?

Go to sleep, probably.

I'm also gonna sleep. I also watched Sister Act 1 recently, because there's gonna be a third one, and I remembered that I found Sister Act 1 funny. Watched it, it was quite funny. And now I might see the second one again, because I have no life. And I'm still in lockdown, even though lockdown apparently stopped the 3rd of December and I didn't know. [Laughter]

Yeah, that's a thing that happened.

I saw this very uplifting clip of an old man, British man, who were interviewed by the American media because he had done his vaccine. And he was just delightful. Very British.

On American media, was it?

Yeah. He was interviewed by someone from America, I don't know which one. But they interviewed him, because he had apparently called some hospital that he lived close to, and been like: "I want to do the vaccine", and they were like: "sure. Come in, and we'll do ya!". Because he was very old. And now he's gonna go meet his family for Christmas. But he was also so British about it, he was like: "I had a shit day, I parked somewhere, went to a restaurant blah blah blah".

Oh! Was he the one that was complaining about the parking at the hospital?

Yeah, I think so. [Laughter]

It was so funny as well, because of the American journalist. And the american journalist was searching for like a feel-good story, and this man was like: "oh I had a shit day".

"It was raining, couldn't park anywhere, they stabbed me with a bloody needle. Youths on the corner blaring their pip pop, or whatever they call it".

No, he was delightful. So maybe we should hang up. [Laughter]

Maybe we should get out of here.

Yeah.

No wait, I've got more to talk about on the case! I haven't. I haven't got any more.

Thank you so much for listening to Midweek Murders. We'll see you next week.

Ciao ciao!

Bye-bye!

[Music]

Topics

• The Woodchipper Murder
• Helle Crafts
• Richard Crafts
• Murder convictions without a body
• Forensic files
• the case that inspired Fargo
• Fargo wood chipper murder
• Dr. Henry Lee
• forensic science
• true crime