09

Pervert Pitchfork and the First DNA Conviction

19 August

The criminal discussed in this episode is Colin Pitchfork, guilty of murdering Lynda Mann and Dawn Ashworth, which was the first crime solved with the help of DNA evidence. Joe (the grammar police) explains what happened when Prof Alec Jeffreys discovered how to identify genetic fingerprints, and Sandra takes the train all the way to Loonyville.

Joe got his information from Wikipedia, as well as this article from The Guardian. Sandra got her information from:

• Colin Pitchfork: Fears after child killer moved to open prison, an article on BBC News
• DNA pioneer's "eureka" moment, on BBC News
• Photo of Colin Pitchfork found here.

Audio transcript

Midweek Murders contains graphic and explicit content listener discretion is advised.

Do you still ride your motorcycle? No, I had to move it to my mom's house because people kept trying to steal it. What? I didn't hear about this. Yes, you did. What happened? The police knocked on our door at three o'clock in the morning "does a Joseph live here?", and Jo answered it and she was like, Yes, let me go get him. Turns out the police being called because someone had been found with a bunch of bolt cutters and screwdrivers. this that and the other. Trying to break the padlock on my bike. Oh my god, I didn't know about this. Yes, you did.

So if your mom garage or she has a backyard. You can't access unless you go through high house. Oh, smart. So I had to ride the bike through a house. That was fun.

Oh, really? Uh huh. No, you just pushed it, obviously. No, I was on it.

No, you never told me this. I didn't tell you that part, because he lied about some minor detail and the whole story. After the police came, I went to make sure that it was all fine and attempted thieves had slike taken the rain cover off and chucked it on the side. So I covered it all back up again. And then the next time they went down, the rain cover was missing. So they'd obviously come back tried again. And someone had seen them. So as they all right, Fuck this. I'm losing it. That's smart. But also why didn't they arrest

They did get arrested and they got charged. But they didn't get like incarcerated. I probably would have got bailed because it was only attempted because someone called the police while they were doing it. Oh yeah smart. Before I had my meds my sleeping meds I would wake up and hear people on the street trying to steal bikes. Back to sleep one time Why try to see that man I couldn't. And one time I scream that get the fuck out over here. But I don't know. intimidating. probably didn't help. No. But it's very, very common in London. People go out and see bikes with a car. So it takes like maybe, it takes like maybe three minutes and then they're gone. I'm like Oh, is this how it happens? And then nothing. That's the end of the anecdote.

That's the story. But wait, did you actually drive your motorcycle inside of your mom's house? Yeah, but very slowly, and nobody thought this was weird. No, because it's the only way to have got it into our backyard and couldn't do just push it. No, it was the gaps. were too narrow for me to be by the side of the bike and get the bike through. So I had to be on the bike.

I don't know why that's the sticking point. Like, why is it so weird? What the difference between pushing it and riding it at like, half a mile an hour? I don't know. It just wasn't sailing through there in like four levels with my helmet on like "Watch out cats and dogs" skidding around the corner and messing up their rug while I was laying down. Like less than one mile an hour that bike was barely moving.

Oh god, that's hilarious. I've never heard of this before. Why do you tell me now it's so funny.

No one other than you would have found the most interesting part of the story.

But I'm glad that you moved it somewhere safer now. Yeah, now it means I don't get to go out and play whenever the sun's out. Yeah, which is sad because then why do you even have a bike? Cuz I bought it before it was attempted to be stolen. Yeah, I know. I know.

I think you need to disembark this sass train at Judge town and maybe get a return ticket back to normality Ville.

You know that's never where my train stops.

No, you go straight past into Looney Ville. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, I've had so much fun with these notes. And it's not gonna be fun for everyone. But well hold that thought because he's been laughing so much at my bike story. I need another beer.

This is funny because when I was watching level on the spectrum, I couldn't even tell that they were speaking in Australian or New Zealand accents because they speak English. And I thought that they were speaking British English. Oh, goodness. I know and when we were like one or two episodes in I was like it's this. This can't be, wait a minute, where in England are they from?

Niklas was like it's not british. Oh. Oh god, I'm so bad at it. Yeah, how long have you lived here now? Five years?

Long enough to get settled status. Better not come up on my interview. How long have you lived here? Oh, but I don't know. Is there a minimum requirement? Can you tell between Australia and British accents? I'm like, Oh, no. If you get asked if you can tell the difference between an Australian and a British accent, you will automatically pass the test. If you tell them there's no such thing as a British accent. English. They will just be like Yep, she's, she's one of us.

You're listening to Midweek Murders, which means that it's time to talk about crime. I'm your host Sandra. I'm your co host Joe by nailed it. The case we're going to talk about today is the first case solved by DNA evidence and that's the case of the murderer Colin Pitchfork or Colin Bitchfork. Nobody calls him that.

I got my references... that cuz you tried to write an Australian P, it was upside down and then you remember and you're in England so you wrote in English P and then when they were combined in May to be sure that's the case

I got my information from Wikipedia a guardian article called killer break through the day DNA evidence first nail the murderer by Ian Cobain, two BBC News articles, one which was written by Claire Marshall.

Yeah, so one I don't know it. Didn't say

just leaving us all in suspense to BBC articles one by Claire Marshall.

I have the timely tourism mystery

ah

Midweek Murders, it's a mystery full of bombs, bomb bomb bomb.

My sources will Wikipedia and the same Guardian article. And also what I remember from my friends ik science course, because this is like a keystone case. So they teach you when you go to school where you go to school. Yeah, I went to school. So 31st of July 1986 Don Ashworth then 15 years old, visited a friend's house and nurpur and 430 she started the walk home

Which would normally take a couple of minutes as she lived in the nearby village of Enderby, and their brief, she took a shortcut along a footpath known locally as 10 pound blade. Her parents were expecting her at home at the latest 9:30pm. When she didn't come home they call the police to report her missing. Two days later, dog's body was found in a wooded area close to the footpath that she had taken. As soon as the body was found, the police realised they were looking for a serial killer, but whyyy you ask? I'll tell you why.

you've written this whole script

is like four of the pages.

Have your six pages of notes just one page per letter of the word why

I did include four "y"s.

On the 21st of November 1983, three years earlier and only a couple of hundred yards away, and then a little bit of a side note, I don't know how much a couple of hundred yards away are because I did write a couple of hundred metres but that's not true. It was a couple of hundred yards. So I kind of figured that was a lot more bandwidth. Now it's pretty much the same one yard is naught point nine metres. Okay, so on the 21st of November 1983 15 year old Linda man who had been walking home after babysitting was raped, strangled and murdered in the same way as Don had been. When Linda didn't return home her parents neighbours spent the night searching for her. The next morning her body was found on a deserted foot foot for no locally as the black pad with the forensic science available at the time, I thought you would appreciate that but maybe not.

Because the sentence involves forensic science. Oh, he'll like.

Like, oh, this is what they had.

This is what the max could deal with back then. Oh, yeah. They were able to link the crimes not only because of the crimes being of the same modus operandi, and having been committed, very geographically close, but also

So because the semen found that the crime scene was of the same blood type, which kind of was the forensic science that they had at the time, which was funny to me, because researching British crimes, they always tried very hard with the science stuff they didn't really try in America. I feel like but that might be my bias. No, when I was being taught forensic science, they said that we pretty much wouldn't be able to get a job if we were looking at America because the standards are completely different. So what we are taught to do and to search for in UK forensics is not applicable at all in US forensics. So the police stated publicly that they were looking for a serial killer who was most likely a local man who knew the area what

Alivia smudges remained unsolved for the three years before the killer struck again. After the police found Dawn's body an arrest was made. They seared in on Richard Buckland, a 17 year old boy living in lorber with learning difficulties, and I say this because of the police interview, so Richard, Brooklyn, New Dawn, and for them for the police, he appeared to have detailed knowledge of the crime including things that had not been made public. And then I put air quotes debatable, because I'm pretty sure I didn't get a hold of the police in interview. I think they probably did suggest a lot of things but I also heard in another podcast, like

Cap remember what podcast it was, but I think it had to do with the fact that he might have found the body before the police from the body. I'm not sure because this was no corroborated and many other sources. During the police questioning, the police claimed that Richard admitted to the crime, but then I also read that he repeatedly denied having done it. So they pushed him to admit it, and he did. But then he also said repeatedly that he didn't do it, but he was very adamant that he had nothing to do with the murder of Linda man. And because the police was convinced that the murderers were connected. They thought that Richard was lying when he denied having anything to do with Linda's murder. Meanwhile, and I say that because of the dramatic effect because of what

Really Meanwhile, it was a couple years earlier at the University of Leicester Professor Sir Alec Jeffrey's made a remarkable discovery during a failed experiment to study the way in which inherited illness pass through families. So this discovery happened in the morning of Monday, the 10th of September, which is one day after 9 11, probably isn't funny, I didn't write that in my notes.

1984 when he pulled an extra film out of the developing tank in the laboratory, he could see patterns in the genetic material which completely discriminated between the three people who had been involved in the analysis. A technician a month.

And the Father. Within seconds, said, Professor Jeffries, it was obvious that we had stumbled upon a DNA based method, not only for biological identification, but also for sorting out family relationships. It really was an extraordinary moment. You want to say something about that DNA thing. There's not really much that you can comment on with his accidental discovery. Like he left his stuff to develop for too long by mistake and then realise that he'd got DNA sequencing out of it, you pretty much covered what you can talk about on that discovery in your summary. Okay, because I kind of read about it and I, I mean, yeah, if you've got questions about it, then I'll I'm happy to try and answer anything but

From what I understand it's the very important part of this in forensic science is that he could separate the victims DNA from the perpetrators DNA from the same stain, I guess. Yes. So previously, the technology would only allow them to detect blood types, like you discussed. So you can find in the same, let's say, a vaginal swab for a rape victim, you would have the DNA from the victim and you would have the DNA from the perpetrator. But all they would be able to determine from that sample would be two different blood types. If the perpetrator is a different blood type, if they're the same blood type, then you've got nothing. So what this discovery allowed them to do was look further than blood type

And also, it's worth noting that obviously, there's only a few different types of blood types. So unless you already have a suspect, and can confirm that they've got the matching blood type, it could be any number of thousands of people. What this accident did enabled the scientists to be able to differentiate because it's more like a barcode. So the way that DNA profiling works is the sample gets treated and put in a solution. And an electric charge is introduced to that solution. In this case, it was Photo Film and usually it's gel electrophoresis Wait, it was like a photograph he used and yeah, so sorry, no, not an X ray. So he extracted the DNA and attached it to photo film, left that to develop which would normally give

picture of the DNA but because he left it for so long, the DNA strand started to separate out, the way that that works is the electrical charge that's applied. So the longer DNA strand is going to have a stronger pull in that electrical current, so it will spread further. If you imagine a barcode on a product, the ones on the right hand side of the barcode will be the ones that are pulled along the matrix forever. And that's what becomes unique to people is their DNA makeup is unique NSS mitochondrial DNA, but we won't get into that. So it gives you a really clear picture of whose DNA is matching who's so your DNA of the victim will be a completely different barcode sequence to the DNA of the suspect. And it's really obvious to tell it's like comparing

In the barcode of the packet of crisps to the barcode of a can of beer that will be completely unique. And that's what he discovered accidentally. For me, it's like the QR code. I know that the QR code of things that you photograph are completely unique. So it's similar to that. But I think the barcode analogy works better, because that's what the DNA profile will look like. It's a series of bars of different thicknesses and different gaps between the bars, depending on the material that's inside your DNA. Yeah. So yeah, you can use the QR code as similar comparison and that they're all unique. But if you picture it as a barcode and starting with all of your material on the left hand side, and then when you apply the charge, the material starts to spread out to the right hand side and some of that gets left behind.

Because that's as far as it can travel, and some of it gets dropped off a little bit later. And then some of it goes all the way to the end and then that stretch of stripes will be completely unique to each individual. Okay. Yeah. So then they charged Richard

Buckland dia for the crime, and he was due to court appearance on the 11th of August. And then the police asked Professor Jeffrey to help them prove that Richard was guilty of the murder of Linda as well as the murder of dawn, Professor Jeffries and the some sources say Professor Sir Alec Jeffrey's, which is a lot is that he he was a professor and he got knighted later in his career. So at the time of

This whole trial he was just Professor Is that a thing that you should say though like Professor Sir Alec Jeffrey's it will be down to his preferences to which he would be preferred to be addressed by but you can only pick one or the other. Okay? So if you're referring to him in an academic sense which we are here, I would just call him professor. Okay, especially as he hadn't been knighted at the time. So Professor Jeffries agreed to look into it and found that not only was Richard not guilty of Linda's murder, he was innocent of both crimes as his DNA did not match the DNA found at the crime scene. But Jeffrey's did confirm that the DNA found at the crime scene was undoubtably from one man. So the police suspicion that it was a serial killer he said was

Correct. It just wasn't Richard. So the following month, the police decided that because they had gone from a cold case and then a perpetrator and then nothing, they decided that they would try Alec Jeffrey's kind of science or they were a bit apprehensive leak. Yeah, technique. They were apprehensive because they thought that Richard was the murderer. But then they were like, well, he's not the murderer. We can go from nothing, or from something to nothing. So they were like, yeah, we should try that technique to catch the killer does they tried to screen the entire neighbourhood and also sent letters to every male born between 19

53 and 1970, who had lived or worked in the area in the recent years, so this was voluntarily at first, but some guys tried to decline because they were like, I'm not afraid of needles or I don't want to, etc, etc. But I think they were socially pressured into giving their DNA. I'm not sure that it was so much social pressure, I think is worth noting that it was a very tight knit community. So almost all of the community were willing to do what they could to help. I could imagine in that age, they probably had daughters of their own or children of their own. Yeah, so a lot of people signed up voluntarily and then most of the people that had a problem

With it came round because they wanted to see whoever was the culprit put to justice. There was a certain degree of social pressure behind it. But I also think that it's one of those rare instances where the whole community comes together knowing that what they're doing is going to be helpful. And we'll provide the solution that the police are looking for, you wouldn't be able to do anything like this nowadays, because you'd never get the same kind of response from a community. Probably not know, it said that by the end of September, I guess, because it said, The following month, around 1000 men had volunteered to give samples. I think it's kind of good, because I don't have any kind of interest in like family history or stuff like that. But I'm probably also lucky in the way that I kind of know about my family is

But I wouldn't give it voluntarily unless it was in that kind of context, I guess. So if they had said that my DNA could disclose or bring to justice, a perpetrator? I would probably give it, I think, yeah. I think a lot of the people that were objecting were also people that had previous with the police. And one of the reasons that they came around and decided to donate was that they were given assurances by the police that if they were on their database for any other number of crimes, depending on what they were obviously, this DNA wouldn't be used against them to prosecute them. So they were like given a free bill of health by the police to say like, okay, you were arrested for petty theft, let's say

We won't use this DNA sample in order to prosecute you for that. We just want to be able to rule you out of these two murders. And that is a lot of tension to people with a previous criminal reference. Understandable like the only thing why I won't upload my DNA to like ancestry or stuff like that is because I already know about my family history and I have no interest in it. Like my mom and dad. They send me emails a couple of times a month about like, Oh, we just discovered were related to Angus con. So is the rest of the world now. Yeah, that to my dad. It's like a sixth cousin to my granddad. I'm like, Yeah, okay. And they're like, oh, you're a direct descendant of videos y'all. were somehow

Which would be funny, but now like, one of the first day chiefs in Sweden, I was like, right, sure, probably also some percentage of the Swedish population I'm guessing, you know. So Colin Pitchfork, married with two children lived in little Thorpe, a village in Leicester separated from the village of Nora bruh by the Leicester to Birmingham railway line. Before his marriage, Pitchfork had been convicted of indecent exposure and had been referred for therapy and then I kept this in my notes, which obviously didn't help. So pitch for work as an apprentice in a Hampshire bakery. According to a supervisor he was a good worker and timekeeper. But he was moody. And he couldn't leave women employees alone. He was always chatting them up. That sounds like someone else: good timekeeper, moody, flirtatious. Mm hmm. Am I Colin Pitchfork? Is this the sex pest? No meant me.

And then I wrote in all caps, AKA workplace harassment. So pitchfork was 27 years old when on the first of August 1987. One of pitchforks colleagues at the bakery, Ian tally, revealed two fellow workers in the Leicester pub, and they named the pub it was the Clarendon learn then that I get any of those right

The second one Clarendon, not relevant, but okay.

That he had taken the blood test while masquerading as Pitchfork, according to Kelly, Colin the dick fork.

That was actually my notes had said that he could not give blood under his own name because he had already given blood for a friend who had a previous conviction for bergerie burglary. gala Ray bug me goes.

woman who overheard the conversation, reported it to police, which I feel like is very common for the very small communities. Like where I grew up, that would happen. 100 Yeah. I also want to mention here that Colin and his boy

Nice, his homeboy. And yeah, sure we're actually bragging in the pug in the pug.

And the dog in the pub. They it wasn't like a casual conversation they were like yeah, we fought the police we we falsified our documents because we were we were protecting our bodies and that's what got them caught out was there bragging is what was overheard and reported to the police. That's that satisfies me 100% understandable if I hear someone bragging doesn't matter about what I would be like fucking the Yep, yep. Yeah. Paid for pad doctor a doctor is past.

Doctor rater ID

doctored his passport insert

Kelly's photograph and then driven him to the test centre at the school waiting out outside while the blood sample was taken, which I feel like I said this on a previous episode but also I was like wow and guess that people can doctor it their passports but also the English government doesn't really acknowledge my existence, which I feel like how could you doctor it your passport but I guess it's just doctor

doctors. No just present tense is doctor. Not doctor right? Your doctor no fast past tense you doctor a passport you have doctored a passport. Okay? No eight you don't eat a passport. So pitch forward.

Stop trying to eat your passport. That's why you don't exist.

Doctor. Doctered is past tense. Doc. No. Colin Pitchfork doctored his passport. Yeah, the UK government are so useless that they don't care if you doctor your passport, they won't be able to find. Okay, so get your tenses, right. Do you even English literature? Better than you do?

Well show me your exam.

I've still got my certificates bam. So on 19th of September 1987, Pitchfork was arrested. And he later admitted during questioning that he had exposed himself to more than 1000 women who keeps count that high and also what the fuck

I remember one guy showing us his penis on the train, and I got So, look, I apologised for that. Okay.

It was like a stranger and I got so fucking scared that I dragged my cousin out of the train cart because I was like, Fuck this. This is fucking awful. I was maybe 14 he was maybe like 60 note that the age would have been a difference. I was a child, and I felt violated, I would have felt violated. Otherwise as well, but because I was so little. I was like, Oh my god, I'm gonna die. Okay, I'm gonna have to be sorry. I'm gonna take my soul. That was part of your story.

And that is why, gentlemen, you should never trust somebody who says they've come to this country legally.

That

bad timing.

I listened to the last story you did with me being on the toilet and it was so dissatisfying never came anywhere.

I thought it was would be like secrets.

You might want to cut that one out.

I will, don't worry.

Okay. And after the thousand women, he later progressed to sexual assault, and then to strangling his victims in order to protect

his identity. He pleaded guilty to the two murders in addition to another incident of sexual assault, and was sentenced to life imprisonment. His rap sheet is actually even worse than that. So he pled guilty to two counts of murder, two counts of rape, two counts of indecent assault, and one count of conspiring to pervert the course of justice. That's a lot of guilty pleas. Yeah, it was real bad as well because of the progression of his indecent exposure. I felt like he should never be in society again. But as I telling that to his parole officers, they set a minimum term of 30 years in 2009. His sentence was reduced

appeal to 28 years and then one. This concerning article I read that the MP for South Leicestershire fear that I say that right. Les Brown's lie says the Shire? No, it's not.

Okay, where the murders occurred and receives a letter that confirmed that Pitchfork had been moved to another prison. And the letter did not say which person had been moved to or if he was allowed out in public on supervise, which is concerning, right concerning to me. Yeah, I mean, he's a serial killer shouldn't be allowed at all. No, he might be serving

prison sentence right now where he is allowed. He is I think he's been spotted in the public happy. I think so I think I read that somewhere. Oh God, I think he was moved to somewhere like Somerset, and they found in or people saw him in a local market or something. Oh, I didn't read that. But that is concerning. That is horrible. He shouldn't be allowed out. I don't think life sentences should be eligible for parole. You've committed a serious enough crime to be sentenced to life, which already is only 30 years, which admittedly is five years more than a typical life sentence. But he pleaded guilty to two charges of murder and two charges of rape and the murders and the rapes are the same charge and then he admitted to another sexual assault.

Like rape scenario where he didn't murder the victim, I guess. Yeah. And then also charged with perverting the course of justice because, you know, tried to get away with it. And they're just like, Oh, well, you know, he's he's got a degree now from prison, and he was a good boy in prison. So he's probably reformed degree and what? I don't know. Okay. Did you have anything else about the forensic science? No, you made me say all earlier. oops. But it was a a benchmark discovery and it's now led to something like 55 000 prosecutions worldwide i think there was someone in death row in the u.s who'd been on death row for something like 30 years who was then found innocent because of this advancement in technology so definitely a good accident to have stumbled upon definitely definitely and also why people want you to upload your dna because even if your siblings or your parents have never committed a crime your third or second cousin might have and your dna might be pivotal to that yeah yeah it's enough to make the link once they can determine the mitochondrial dna significance yeah so i might need to at some point but i feel like my mother's dna is probably already out there because she did one of the i think it was the national geographic thing well it depends if the police force have access to public databases like that so i don't know what the laws are in sweden but i think it has to be a special circumstance that the uk police force would be able to access genealogy companies databases yeah because in the u.s i think that they have an opt-out opt-in option yeah but in the us they also take your fingerprints upon entry to the country so they already have unique identifiers unless you're a twin i read some part of that in like reading about alec jeffries the professor or the sir and he was obviously very happy that the discovery led to resolve in a lot of crime cases but very concerned about innocent people being in the database yeah so there's there was a lot of law reforms in the last 10 20 years that limit the amount of time governments can hold your dna i think it was unlimited and now there's a limit to it so they have to destroy i can't remember whether they have to get rid of your dna if you're found innocent or whether it's a shorter time period that they keep it for because obviously if they're deleting everything then there'd be no national dna database and the whole point of the science would be useless because everybody who was found guilty would already be in prison so you'd never ever get a match but there are very strict laws in the uk about who can access it when they can access it why they access it and for how long that date is available for which is again why you wouldn't see a whole community come together like you did in the 80s because so many people are now more aware of how long their data would be kept for and whether they would be comfortable with that and i think there were 5 500 men from that community that all donated either blood or saliva to help convict colin pitchfork oh i thought it was like i thought i said another number it was in the thousands when they first made the appeal but by the end by the time they'd caught colin it was over 5500 people had donated dna samples and got no match that's like that's how unique that this is and it's why in a court of law you can be almost certain that the dna that you're presenting is for the person that you're convicting we learn a whole bunch of stats that never went in my head are just plugged into the formula but something like one in 250 million or something like that and that limitation is down to the instruments that are used it's not even down to the likelihood of a similar result genetically so you have that limiting factor is because of instrumentation and human error it's genuinely unique unless you're looking at mitochondrial dna but or my dad and my grandpa being like six cousins i have a question where do stars go in the daytime it's that my grandpa on my dad's side had a birthmark on the lower part of his back i'll stop you there birthmarks are one of these things that have confused the scientific world since they realized they could be passed genetically nobody knows why nobody knows how but it's just a thing that happens so i can't answer why you have almost the identical same pattern that he does because it was really funny i don't but it's like one of those raised brown ones you know a mole a liver spot or a mole i guess i don't know the english term for it but my granddad has it on his lower back my dad has it in the exact same spot my oldest brother has it on the exact same spot and they all three of them have really bright blue eyes as well dreamy i know about it because we used to go swimming at my grandparents house and then i noticed it and i was like you have the same birthmark at the exact same place and they were like oh yeah we do and then my grandpa once swatted my dad really hard because he thought it was uh one of those blood sucking insects that flies a mosquito no it's a bigger one it's like a moth that sucks blood oh you're thinking of a bat no it's like an insect i used to be really scared of them because once i saw it on my shoulder and i saw the teeth going in i was like ah i don't know what that is it was a thing in the north of sweden and my grandpa swatted my dad really hard on the back and it was at the same exact birthmark that he also had and i was like that's ironic but maybe it's not if you don't know the context it's not ironic whether you know the context or not [Laughter] oh there you go again with your girlfriend you know that's that's just an english literature thing [Laughter] so what are you gonna do now i gotta sleep most of the time half ten probably got time for a couple of furious masturbations hmm did you walk your dog did you have dinner yes i'm not an animal i feel what are you gonna do well i'm probably gonna take my beds do my first cream blah blah buddy was very funny today she she was in the camera when nicholas was in the meeting hello i'm here i can do the programming too hello i want to wrap all up in your uh laptop like i can lead the team pay attention to me and then nicholas did a quiz about like his zoom backgrounds what he should have from old movies and i got almost all of them because i've watched every single thing that is out there that is how bored i am you need to take up knitting yeah i do i did before when i was 12 i used to no you were such a grandma i've always been a grandma when i was 12 i used to knit mill scarves for my grandchildren i didn't have any grandchildren but i was just preparing for the day do you want to say bye to the listeners thank you so much for listening to midweek murders see that means it's time to talk about crime no we already did that oh sorry i got confused it's like muscle memory i hear midweek murders and that means it's time to talk about crime thank you so much suzanne and lee for listening we'll see you guys i'm that one listening from pakistan welcome welcome i'm my iceland boy homie and the iceland boy hello hello oh woman oh woman fucking sexist pig okay goodbye peace out [Music]

Topics

• Colin Pitchfork
• DNA profiling
• Lynda Mann
• Dawn Ashworth
• Professor Alec Jeffreys
• escalation of predatory behaviour
• indicent exposure
• life sentences
• DNA database
• obstruction of justice
• DNA evidence
• british serial killler
• DNA profiling explained
• forensic science
• how DNA is used in criminal investigations
• discovery of genetic fingerprints