11

The Dodgy Dog Walker and the Gross Investigation

9 September

The murders of Rachel Nickell, Samantha Bisset and Jazmine Bisset are the crimes discussed in this episode. We also talk about the murderer Robert Napper, the absolute dumpster fire of a police investigation and Joe's upcoming birthday.

Joe got his information from:

• The Independent, article by Jason Bennetto
• The Sunday Times, article by Adam Fresco
• The photo of Robert Napper, from murderpedia.org

Sandra got her information from:

• Wikipedia
• Murderuk.com
• Crimes That Shook Britain The Murder of Rachel Nickell
• The Guardian, article by Sandra Laville

Audio transcript

Midweek Murders contains graphic and explicit content listener discretion is advised. The silence is me judging you

thought you just got drunk.

No, no, I don't have enough wine for that.

Are you expecting a delivery?

No.

No. Well, Sucks to be you. Well, at least I won't call you screaming at you.

As opposed to who? You!

Do you not remeber that? What are you talking about?

When you got drunk? You called me like six times screaming at me.

No, I don't remember.

After a while I just clicked decline every time we called and you were like

[Cackle] and I was like stop calling me.

I can see it. On the fourth, was it the 14th of August? Was it that long ago? Maybe? I don't know.

Yeah. Four calls at half past 10

Did you not remember that. No. It was harrowing

One time I accidentally answered.

Because you've video called me and I accidentally answered that. I was like, nooooo.

Yeah, that one went through. [Music]

You're listening to Midweek Murders, which means that it's time to talk about crime with the one, the only, your not so friendly neighbourhood Ravenclaw, Joe.

I don't know what you're doing.

Changing it up a bit. Keeping it interesting. You don't like it.

I don't like it.

You're listening to Midweek Murders, with me is the one, the only person who will take a toaster with him into the bathtub

and Sandra.

That's me!

Today we're gonna discuss the murder of Rachel Nickell and others who'll come up... Wait, that was probably a shit introduction. You're listening to Midweek Murders. Oh, don't do it all the way from the top!

Why don't you do it today? This?

What?

Fuck my six pages of notes, take it away Joe!

Spoiler alert. It's about murder.

Today we're going to talk about the case of Robert Napper. A serial killer and rapist. I got my information from murderer uk.com, Wikipedia, crimes that took Britain the murder of Rachel Nickell, which I think is a series. I watched it on YouTube. And a guardian article by Sandra Laville.

It's almost you.

I know. Almost, but not quite.

You'll never be beans. Oh yeah. My dad sent the video that my mom wanted to help with for a work to another Sandra Grahl. I think it's a German lady, because I've seen her on Google.

Googled yourself? That's a bit sad.

I have to because my mum does. I have to know what's out there... Who are you, a celebrity?

My mom does this and then she uses it for blackmail.

We both do. We do it together.

Where did you get your information from? I might ask.

Wikipedia and some Guardian articles that I didn't pay attention to the authors of.

I hope you send to me so I can put them up on our website and if you're interested in learning more about our sources, or photos of

the cases or maybe just look at our not faces, maybe you want to email us? Visit Midweek Murders dot netlify dot app. Terms and conditions apply. A small donation of 72,000 pounds is required.

We won't accost to with popup ads, cookies or any other kind of autoplaying video that you might...

I ran out of steam. Lost it a bit there, didn't you.

But I will send you emails about erectile dysfunction.

Enter at your own risk.

That is not true. Just so you know.

Fine.

The case starts on the morning of the 15th of July 1992 when Rachel Nickell was walking with her son on Wimbledon common. There she was attacked by a man who stabbed her sexually assaulted her and murdered her. Her two year old son was left unharmed, but forever traumatised, and knife is found nearby with fingerprints. The Metropolitan Police got on the case and interviewed 32 men and then zeroed in on an unemployed man by the name of Colin Stagg, who had volunteered his contact information to the Please, as he had walked his dog in the same area that same morning, even though there was no forensic evidence, linking Stagg to the scene, a criminal psychologist had made an offender profile that suggested that the offender was a young man living alone with the possible interest in the occult. Which, why? I just felt like that was a weird jump to make.

Well, he had fuck all idea what he was talking about. So you know, just throw any shit in there.

Yeah, he'll come up again in the story.

Oh I look forward to it.

At a search of Colin's home, they found some books in the occult genre. Certain that they have found the perpetrator, which again, question mark, the police launched the covert operation in the hopes of getting additional it said But I changed that to any evidence that would implicate Stagg as the offender. A police woman from the Metropolitan Police contacted Stagg under the pretence of being a friend of a woman who he used to be in contact with. In the course of over five months, she tried to get a confession from him by failing a romantic interest meeting him speaking to a man on the telephone and exchanging letters containing sexual fantasies. Stagg, way over his head wanted her to have sex with him, but voiced no violent sexual fantasies when pressed on that subject. The undercover police officer even went so far as to tell him that if he had done the Wimbledon common Murder, she would like him more, he answered: "I'm terribly sorry. But I haven't", which is so...Sounds like a confession to me.

Yeah. But it's so incredibly British to be like, Oh, I'm terribly sorry, but I haven't done this vicious attack. I found it funny...

Racist.

undeterred, the police thought that they had enough evidence to successfully convict Stagg and arrested and charged him on the 17th of August 1993. The central Criminal Court, which I wrote in because it said the Old Bailey, which I was like this is probably not something that anyone else is going to get except for people who live in the UK.

I dunno, The Old Bailey is a pretty well known legal institution.

I had never heard of it. This is for you, my international listeners. And for me. You guys need to do more homework. The Central criminal court rule the entrapment evidence as deceptive conduct of the grossest kind, which meant that the police withdrew it's case, and Stagg was formerly acquitted in September of 1994. Now we're gonna do something that you do not like, but I'm gonna rewind the clock a bit.

Oh fucking bollocks. It's not gonna be your cup of tea. Not gonna be chronological and therefore, it's gonna be a complete waste of everybody's time. Well, it's, I mean, you're doing a great job.

It's important to present the case first because the police royally fucked it, which is going to be evident from the rewind of the clock. Just get on with your jumping timeology. We're not in a bloody Tardis, but you know, do what ever you need to do.

I have a question though, first.

Where does the stars go during the daytime?

There still there.

How did you know? The question is.... Bloody hell!

Bloody hell, she's a genius. And the question was that all of this shit with Colin Stagg, like the whole scheme to get him to implicate himself, and blah, blah, blah. They had no evidence of him being the perpetrator. From when you talk about like your educational stuff, you always say that if they don't have any evidence, it's not even gonna get to the court, as I understand.

So, the evidence that they had was the criminal psychologist and his, what did they call it? Offender profile. So because he fitted the offender profile of the independent criminal psychologist, that was enough evidence to take it to court, but then as soon as the judge saw it, and was like, well, this offender profile you've moulded around Colin Stagg, rather than making an offender profile and Colin Stagg fitting it. The fact that you've basically just tried to strong arm him into a confession means we're not taking this any further. Everybody go home.

Yeah. But people say, I think that they're trying to sweep it under the rug a bit. The whole like, there was no evidence because they said that well, he fitted the profile. And I don't know, I just felt like that was a whole lot of, lot of guess work.

Well, it was and the fact that so much investigation and reform has come out of this case. Shows how bad a job both the Met police and the criminal psychologists did. The criminal psychologist got debarred or whatever the psychology equivalent is, that's the lawyer version.

Delicensed probably.

Yeah. From the British psychology Institute's like he's no longer allowed to practice psychology. And then the met police were told that these honey trap kind of evidence gathering isn't allowed. Yeah. So at least they were told off what they did.

And speaking of how badly they messed up the case, here it comes. In the summer of 1989, a woman who had been getting her kids ready for school, was sexually assaulted in her home in Plumstead common. Eight weeks after that attack, a woman named Pauline Napper called the police to report her son, Robert Napper, because he had confessed to her that he had raped the woman in Plumstead common. She was told that no crime of that nature had happened, which is whaaaat. It gets worse. This was the first of many more attacks, approximately 70, during a period of four years, and these were dubbed the green chain rapes because the attacks that followed were all perpetrated along the Green Chain walk. Yeah. On the other 25th of may 1992, a woman walking with her baby in a stroller was attacked and brutally raped. And almost strangled to death. This attacks were not linked by the police to the murder of Rachel Nickell. In the summer of 1992. Robert Napper is arrested for stalking a female police employee in Plumstead. When they searched his home. They find a stalker diary with maps of Plumstead common with notes about women and fantasies, there I said question mark because they might have been him writing down his attacks, about sexual violence and descriptions of violent attacks as well as weapons. The police again, makes no links to the Green Chain rapist, Robert Napper is given an eight week custodial sentence for possessing a firearm and ammunition but these stalker diaries are being like "Oh well", which I found... Just a bit of fun. Which I found incredibly negligent, neg, neg, neg. You can do it.

It's not coming out. You have to do it.

Birth it, birth the word.

Oh, I'm okay. I'm okay. Ah no you do it. I think we should just let you do it and make the whole episode you're trying to say that word.

ne ne

nej. Which means

No.

nej means no, hashtag nej means no.

Means that in Bavaria as well.

in August of 1992. The month after the murder of Rachel Nickell, Napper was taken in for questioning about the Green Chain rapes after a suspicious neighbour had called the police, but he was released. Whaaaat? I didn't include that in my notes. But again, I'm like, What the fuck?

He just seemed like a nice guy.

Yeah, he was like, it's not me. They were like, okay,

Okay, sorry.

Sorry, excuse me.

He offered to give a blood sample but failed to turn up and provide the specimen two times, and officers never followed up. This happens again, when a different neighbour calls into incriminate Napper as the rapist after seeing a sketch, but Napper had been eliminated as a suspect due to his six two, six foot two six foot two high as detectives decided to exclude anyone over six feet based on the description of a five foot seven rapist even though the witness reports about the perpetrators height were conflicting, so some people said less. Some people said more. They're like "Nah probably not him". In April 1993 Nappers fingerprints were found on a tin box discovered buried on Winns common containing a Mauser handgun. How would you say that? Moser Mauser?

Mauser handgun. Napper is never questioned. In July at that same year in 1993. He is subject to a police report where he had been spying on a woman in her home. The police who responded to the call wrote this note that Napper was a possible rapist. No follow up is made. And they were like, Where's the rapist? Doing all of these rapes. He's right there. They're like where? That was my own interpretation.

I didn't write that in my notes, but they were like, he's right here. They were like where they were like here, where? I don't see him. I don't see him.

It's so horrible. In November 1993, Samantha Bisset and her four year old daughter Jasmine visit were attacked in their home and Plumstead and were raped, murdered and mutilated. A fingerprints belonging to Robert Napper had been foun in Samantha's flat, and he was subsequently arrested and charged for the double murder. In 1995, he was convicted to a secure psychiatric facility. Paul Britton, the criminal psychologist we talked about before, who was working on all three investigations says outright that the crimes are not linked. The police officer in charge for Samantha and Jasmine's murder, were like, oh, but maybe it's the same guy. He was like, "Nah". Doesn't feel like it no. So weird. During the trials of these murders, they realised that Robert Knepper has been on the police's radar at least eight times. 10 years after the murder of Rachel Nickell, the Scotland yards cold case team reviewed the case. With the advancement of DNA techniques, they were able to find the set of male DNA from Nickells clothes. The samples large enough to be used for ruling out suspects. This is in 2002. So now they were like, oh, there's DNA here that we can find that isn't her son or her partner. So it must be the perpetrator. But they couldn't like single out his familiar strands, I guess. No, yes, probably?

I don't know. Can you repeat the question? You're not the boss of me. You're not the boss of me now. Malcolm in the Middle.

In 2002. They find a set of male DNA that is not her sons or partners. So they conclude that it must be the perpetrators on her clothes, but they can't like... probably because it was just one sample, one spot, they couldn't really get his whole DNA fingerprint from it.

Genetic fingerprint. That was because the sample was so small and would have degraded over time. So yeah, when you analyse DNA you look into a certain number of areas of that DNA strand to be able to give a statistical analysis of how likely is that this will be someone else? Mm hmm. So when the samples small or if the sample is degraded, you're limited in the amount of areas that you can look in. Yeah. To be able to map that so to give you an example, so when DNA evidence was first established, they were looking at seven areas of DNA. And that gave you a statistical analysis of a likelihood of it being one person in 15 million. Mm hmm. About 20 years later, they were looking in 11 areas, so seven to 11. And that gives you a statistical analysis of it being the likelihood of one person in 1 billion. Yeah. So the more you reduce down those areas that you can look at, the less likelihood that you can rule out a large population of people. So the reason that they couldn't use this as a full DNA fingerprint is because either the DNA sample was too small or it was too degraded and they wouldn't have stored it under the right conditions.

They do get closer during the years that followed by in 2002. They could only use it as a... as ruling out other suspects. Yes, they

can rule people. Yeah,

yeah. So in 2004 Two years later, the DNA sample links Robert Napper to Rachel Nickells murder. It also turns out, who knew, that the knife found near Rachel's body had Nappers fingerprints on it. And they were like Where? Where is he? The fingerprints on the handle? Handle? Where's the handle?

Yeah. In 2008, Robert Napper was convicted of the manslaughter of Nickell on the grounds of diminished responsibility, which I'm guessing is because he was diagnosed with schizophrenia and autism, but I'm not... Yeah.

Yeah. So diminished responsibility is a legal defence term that your defence will use to try and mitigate prosecution against you. So it's basically saying that their mental functions are impaired in some way. And therefore, they can't be entirely responsible for what they've committed. It was what brought the crime down from a murder charge to a manslaughter charge.

I feel like it kind of should be a murder charge, though, because from the stalker diaries and stuff, you can definitely tell that he's planning. Like it's not random attacks. He's planning these attacks.

And I feel like... Is he planning to murder them? Or is he just planning to sexually assault them?

His pattern of behaviour suggests that it was rape in the beginning and then it quickly escalated to murder. I think that he was planning on murdering them as well, in the end as well. Like before he was arrested the final time, the eight other times people were like "Where?".

Where did he go?

Where'd he come from? Where'd he go? Where'd he come from? Catman Joe. Okay, Napper was sentenced to be incarcerated indefinitely at Broadmoor hospital for the criminally insane. What did you research? That was it. That was it? Yep. I quite liked justice... Oh, no, wait, your microphone is underneath. It's not underneath anything. Okay. I can hear you now. I can hear clearly now. The rain has gone. The double chin has gone.

Wow, fuck you.

Oh, you always say that's the case.

You're meant to tell me on beautiful. You are beautiful yes, yes.

Not a little chubster who's chin's eats his microphone.

No, I don't have anything to add.

"You quite liked" you were gonna say.

I liked Justice Ognall's complete shutdown of the Met police's honey trap. What?

Case against Colin Stagg? Oh, yeah.

"What?" hahaha.

You broke up. So I was like, blabla ag. Oh, sorry. I was like, was that Swedish?

What did he say then?

He said that that case was not merely an excess of zeal, but a blatant attempt to incriminate a suspect by positive and deceptive conduct of the grossest kind.

Of the grossest kind. So gross.

Just like how, once you become a justice, you're allowed to shit on people's evidence by using big fancy words. And sentences that no one would utter "not merely an excess of zeal, but a blatant attempt to incriminate a suspect". Oh, disgusting. Oh, Get out. Get out of my courtroom.

What are you planning on doing this week when you're on vacay.

Masturbating furiously?

But for real, though, you have any plans?

Oh, I was, I was being honest. But I'm going to finish reading The Count of Monte Cristo. Then I'm gonna chase the magic dragon.

Oh, yeah. Sorry for finishing your Lego for you. Otherwise you

could have done that. Yeah, I can't do that now, can I?

Might try and come up with a new tattoo idea.

Do you have money for that?

Yeah. I got savings bitch. It's not like I can put them towards a house is it?

What kind of tattoo are you thinking about?

I don't know. That's why I'd have to think about it.

Make sense.

Such a sassy lil bitch. You should run them by me first, so you don't end up with an accident.

Well, if your opinion was anything to go by, you would tell me not to get the Weeping Angel. And I actually really like that one. So fuck you and the high horse that you rode in on.

I need to do the jingle for Jo's podcast, but whenever I've tried, they just end up like horror themed. I think it's because of my depression. It's just like... Make it scary. Make it scary and sad. Make it sad and scary.

Doo doo doo doo

play the jingle. I don't know how the trumpets go.

It's my besties birthday on Saturday. I don't know if you know,

Ah wish Jakob a Happy Birthday for me.

Somebody kept barging on on the importance of me remembering. So here I am remembering. Rememberall.

It's gone red, but I can't remember what I forgotten. Worst invention ever.

Story of my life, there's something I should remember, but don't know what.

Also, you're probably not going to appriciate this because you don't like the film's but in that scene, the thing that he's forgotten are his robes.

Ah.

Is he naked? No you pervert, he's 11.

Would have been funny though if he was like, I can't remember what I've forgotten... Oh no, one is completely butt naked. Like the police in this case, they were like "Oh no, I can't remember where the rapist is". Everyone is like, "he's right there". Where?

Sorry.

What were you gonna say? Let it go.

What were you gonna say? Is what the bloke said to the met police "Yeah I murdered someone, yeah raped someone. Let it go".

And there were like "he's probably not guilty".

He's probably a really nice chap, actually. I think it's probably this innocent bloke that was just harmlessly walking his dog and gave us his details because he wanted to be a good Samaritan. Yeah, it's probably that guy.

That seems quite likely, quite possible. Not,

not this guy, who his own mother has called us to say he's a dirty rapist. No, no, probably not him. No, probably the dodgy dog walker.

The dodgy dog walker. That might be your new hashtag.

I think that should be the name of the episode.

I feel bad for him though. He got a nice settlement.

720,000 pounds. Did he get that much? Yeah.

I saw differing reports between 500 and a million

Yeah, he got $700 odd. Do you know how much the little kid got who was scarred for life? Watching his mother bleed out to death? 25. Oh god, that's nothing, poor kid. Twenty five pounds. JK, it was 25,000. But you know, the guy that spent a couple of days in jail, falsely accused. Nearly one million dollars.

Hmm. Although he wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for the incompetence of the police. Yeah, staggering incompetence, the grossest mishandling of any....

I ran out of steam.

I still think the kid should've got more money.

Yeah, definitely. Okay, should we say goodbye to the listeners? Bye bye listeners, thank you so much for listening to Midweek Murders. We'll see you next week.

Ciao ciao.

Topics

• Robert Napper
• Rachel Nickell
• Samantha Bisset and Jazmine Bisset
• Green Chain Rapist
• Plumstead Common rapist
• Wimbeldon Common murder
• DNA
• botched police investigation
• UK serial killer
• honey pot trap
• entrapment
• true crime uk
• cases solved with DNA
• fingerprint evidence
• offender profiling
• Criminal psychologist
• Police investigations gone wrong
• stalker